Comments

1. "The Tesla roadster’s success"
   Are you kidding? The roadster is a year overdue on delivery and has sold fewer than 900 cars. What exactly would you term a failure?
   As for that $30,000 car, the Think has the cheapest batteries around, will sell for over $35,000 and khalf of that is for the battery pack, which can go, at most, 110 miles, That’s a driving radius (which is what’s important, NOT the driving range) of around 55 miles or probably considerably less. You ain’t going to be goinmg to many places in your Tesla $30K car, I would guess. Tesla builds all-electrics (they wanted to build a Chevy Volt type with a range extender) for one and only one reason : that’s the only design they have the capability of building. They smply are not a professional automaker and it shows in their transmission problems, safety issues, etc. Tesla, the amateur automaker, promising things that, once again, it cannot deliver.

   kerry bradshaw | 2008-07-09 - 03:26:49 PM (CDT)

2. Congrats on misinterpreting the author’s statement.

   The Internet | 2008-07-09 - 03:40:41 PM (CDT)

3. ^Kerry...no offense, but what ’safety issues’ are you talking about? The transmission "problem" was just that they wanted to do two speeds and couldn’t find anyone to build one for them...so they are going to release one speed cars. Tesla is a new company with brand new technology...and the only reason you hear about these ’issues’ with Telsa and not with other car makers is because Tesla is kind enough to let us in on their progress. I can guarantee that Honda and Toyota etc have the same types of problems when they design new cars...it’s just that they don’t have a blog that everyone can read about them

   craig | 2008-07-09 - 04:11:21 PM (CDT)

4. Tesla is the Tucker of its day _ innovating outside of the Detroit box. Hopefully it won’t suffer the same fate.

   Chris | 2008-07-09 - 04:35:31 PM (CDT)

5. Kerry, your comments are as if technology will not get cheaper. As with everything new, cost do come down as more people put their minds to it. Currently Li-ion is expensive but 5 years from now, it could be (will be) much cheaper. Now the volumes are 1000 a year but consider 100,000 a year from Volt and test models from Toyota, one can be reasonably certain, this engineering problem will be tackled.
   The quicker it is done the better for the world.

   Luke | 2008-07-10 - 04:52:51 AM (CDT)

6. Kerry, you’re obviously a Tesla basher. Go back to your hole. Tesla has begun delivering, paid for, cars. It’s slow to ramp up production because they are waiting for the upgraded transmission to be finished so that they don’t incur extra expenses in retrofits. The car is real, and proven, just Youtube it, and you’ll see. What we don’t like is the price, but then again a Merecedes and BMW aren’t cheap either, and you still have to put $4.11/ gallon into it. Oh, they aren’t very economical either. The Tesla IS!

   Richard in Florida | 2008-07-10 - 12:45:22 PM (CDT)

7. wait till gas hits $4.59 per gallon like hear in Cal.
   Buy the way Kerry, there is a one year waiting list of people who have already PAID in full for their Tesla. What have you got to show for yourself?
   The Think car hashad it’s range more than double since Ford got rid of it. The battery technology which has been the killer for electric car in the past is evolving rapidly

   gizmo in CA | 2008-07-10 - 05:23:52 PM (CDT)

8. Hey! Give Kerry a break! Ignorant people tend to speak out before doing their research.

   I’ve been following the progress of the Tesla and I believe what they’ve done is amazing. There are only a hand full of cars that can go this distance on a single charge. So far, Tesla is the only one in mass production and has delivered.

   Stingrey in CA | 2008-07-10 - 08:21:32 PM (CDT)

9. Quoting from the article: Speaking of the brakes, get this: the Roadster actually recovers energy when you slow down and sends that energy back to the battery...

   Ummm... Nice article, but it’s like the reporter never heard of the Toyota Prius before, or regenerative braking. The Prius has been doing this since 2001.

   miketorse | 2008-07-10 - 08:32:01 PM (CDT)

10. Just some numbers on putting solar panels on the roof of the Roadster:

    The roadster gets approx. 3 miles per KwH, meaning that an extra 50 miles would need at least 16KwH.

    Assuming that Northern CA can get average of 6 hours of sunlight with a low enough incidence to generate meaningful power, about 2.5Kw would need to be generated each hour to provide the 16KwH (and thus 50 miles).

    Typically available PV cells are only 20% efficient, and since around 1Kw of sunlight hits every m2 (square meter), one would need around 12.5 square meters of cells - which is roughly equivalent to 125 square feet. The total WxH of the roadster is only 80 square feet.

    There is no way to power 50 miles with on-board solar. Not even close.

    Gabe | 2008-07-10 - 09:21:28 PM (CDT)

11. Nice mincing of Kerry. Well deserved.

    Kerry,
    How about the Aptera. 2.5 person car, 120 miles all-electric, 130 mpg in hybrid mode after that, (site claims 230 mpg), $30,000. Oh yeh, must be bogus. They’re not a "professional car company". Is this why AT&T came out with the first cell phones? Professional communications company?

    mds | 2008-07-10 - 10:39:07 PM (CDT)

12. The Tesla Roadster looks like a really cool car. I just wonder what the options are to drive far in it like from LA to Vegas where it might be farther than 220 miles.

    The Fisker Karma is said to be out by 2010 - will be a sporty 4 seater, plug-in hybrid electric for about $80k ... you’d be sure to go far in it.

    I think Tesla ought to look into plug-in hybrid electric (PHEV) also.

    Still, the best thing going for the average is the popular hybrid electrics (HEV) , Prius , Honda civic hybrid since many people just do not have a place to plug in overnight.

    B McCoy | 2008-07-10 - 11:23:56 PM (CDT)

13. Tesla will not make it long term. The roadster is cute but only reachable by the wealthy who can afford it. The $60k sedan concept is waaaay overpriced. By the time they "try" and produce a $30k vehicle, there will be a dozen to chose from that will be BETTER. Tesla cannot compete in any way, shape or form with the likes of a Toyota. Sorry folks, this little valley company will NOT be around in 6 years. You read it hear first (DOA by 7/2014).

    being blunt | 2008-07-10 - 12:24:09 AM (CDT)

14. @B McCoy: Tesla doesn’t want to make hybrid cars, because hybrid cars still use gas, and we’d still have that dependence on foreign oil the author was talking about.

    Stapp | 2008-07-10 - 01:19:51 AM (CDT)

15. i hope they do put the solar panels on the roof of the tesla. just imagine if u only ride like 20-30 miles in a day? wake up..its charging...ride to work charging....let it sit for 8 hours still charging....gabe does have a good point wit his comments but letting it charge from sunrise till sun down might really help out wit the range. i heard a rep say "wit conservitive driving" one could get 260 miles out of the roadster just imagine if u could squeeze out another 50 wit constant solar charging. awsome dream =)

    vince | 2008-07-11 - 04:40:22 AM (CDT)

16. BeingBlunt; Actually, few of us heard it first from you. What I find funny, is that when I was a kid, I remember ppl saying that Japanese companies could not make it big. And then the datsun z car came out; cheap little sports car. Helped make japanese name.
    Personally, I am guessing that they will around in 6 years. The reason is that they are learning to build great electric cars. They are starting up at the top and working downwards. Even now, the bulk of the roadster is made in established car companies. But Tesla has the final assembly for this, as well as the batteries. That means that they control the expensive part of this car. They will then move to building more on the next version (the 60K car). Finally, by 2011, they are suppose to be in the low-end model. Yes, the japanese (esp Nissan), will have at least a few models. But gas will still be expensive. And detroit and most of the other japanese companies will still be pushing their hybrids, rather than going into pure EVs.

    g.r.r. | 2008-07-11 - 06:25:23 AM (CDT)

17. I love Tesla for jump starting the lithium ion car revolution. Don’t give them much of a long term chance though. A battery powered powertrain with lithium batteries is a simple thing to drop into any vehicle design, once automotive lithium battery production ramps up. GM and Toyota and the others are already starting this process, and their batteries will undoubtedly be cheaper, better, and more tested than anything Tesla can get their hands on. Plus they will be able to do a gas or diesel backup like the Volt expertly, which is something Tesla will have a hard time doing. The regular car industry will then swoop down and eat Tesla’s lunch, sorry to say.

    ArtInvent | 2008-07-11 - 02:13:12 PM (CDT)

18. "There’s got to be some drawbacks,... Well, kind of. On a full, three-and-a-half hour charge, the car can only travel about 220 miles"
    I hope that it has an automatic charger to prevent overcharging. It will get plugged in the evening and used the following morning (8 hours), and I probably do a radius of 7 miles so overcharging could present a problem if this technical issue is not addressed.

    Streetcar Eddie | 2008-07-11 - 02:36:14 PM (CDT)

19. Gasoline is king. Electric cars will never be good. I drive a Full Size Suburban and run it on Water!

    Bigger is Better | 2008-07-11 - 02:50:18 PM (CDT)

20. Of course battery technique will get better, as will many things, but who wants to wait. Think of how computers are improving all the time but that is no reason to wait before buying. The planet can’t wait...

    Piers | 2008-07-11 - 03:20:41 PM (CDT)

21. Another naysayer here. Japanese car companies are set to drop into the electric car market in a big way. They already have many small model "KEI" cars from which to build battery powered cars. I wish Tesla all the luck. Many the best car(s) win.

    ChuckM | 2008-07-11 - 04:52:39 PM (CDT)

22. come on will ya. Tesla has most of it’s technology from AC propulsion. Their ESS is not rocket science. Wishing them good/GREAT luck is an understatement. Asians are going to eat american cake real soon (again).

    Going electric | 2008-07-11 - 09:22:42 PM (CDT)

23. How long has the first publically sold teslas been on the market. How are the batteries holding up. I have read that the batteries will need to be replaced after three years. Any hard data on this would nice. And how do you get the batteries to replace the old ones when they do need replacing.

    Not bashing, just asking. I really want to know.

    omegaman66 | 2008-07-11 - 10:47:16 PM (CDT)

24. omegaman66,

    The link below my offer some insight on what to expect when battery makers get serious:
    http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1478

    being blunt ,
    When you question whether Tesla will be around in six years, I laughed! How’s that Hummer brand going these days? I think the risk of the big 2-1/2 domestic automakers becoming the big 2, 1-1/2 or 1 would be better odds than Tesla tanking.

    storky | 2008-07-11 - 12:29:04 AM (CDT)

25. Thanks storky but the article you listed is of nickel metal hydride batteries not Li ion. And the use of the li ion in the volt and tesla car will be some what different than how the batteries are used in parallel hybrids.

    I have seen a number of charts that show expected durability of various li-ion batteries but was wondering how the real world batteries were holding up in comparison.

    omegaman66 | 2008-07-12 - 07:01:14 AM (CDT)

26. omegaman66,

    No-one has any "real world" longevity data on lithium-ion because the technology is relatively new. There a few production vehicles that have the technology and fewer still that have been in service for more than a year.

    My point is that whatever technology is used in a vehicle sold in the US will have to pass EPA and CARB, California Air Resource Board (now representing fourteen states), certification standards. That means the batteries MUST be warranted to last a minimum of 8 years / 100,000 miles or 10 years / 150,000 miles in CARB states. That means if the batteries fail before those landmarks, they must be replaced by the manufacturer free of charge, all parts and labor.

    No automaker bean counters would agree to the implementation of any technology whose MTBF, mean time between failures, did not surpass those benchmarks significantly.

    The link I gave you demonstrates the longevity on two different NiMH battery formulations use two different vastly different duty cycles - all electric vehicles and gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles - both entering service in 1998. My own personal example of the technology is a 2001 Toyota Prius, the sole family vehicle, put into service on January 5, 2001. I still drive today on its original batteries.

    Automakers MUST prepare the technology adequately or not only will they quickly lose money, not only will they upset consumers and repel repeat buyers, but today’s automakers are on such tenuous financial ground, that they will likely collapse. Getting battery technology right is a requirement for the survival of their business.

    storky | 2008-07-12 - 10:17:41 AM (CDT)

27. Tesla may not be here is six years, but that will be because it is bought out by another company - Tesla as a company already has succeeded. Detroit, the emperor, has no clothes.

    The people who bought these roadsters are heros. They are helping to move the technology into the real world by showing there is a market. It’s true that only the best and brightest, the rich and powerful, are the ones who can afford these cars at the moment. But, thanks to their sacrifice, I will have an electric vehicle within the next few years.

    Dan | 2008-07-12 - 01:44:41 PM (CDT)

28. Gabe:

    Your numbers are correct regarding the uselessness of putting solar panels on the roof of the Tesla Roadster. But dude, you misinterpreted the article, which meant putting them on the roof of your *house* to generate electricity to charge the roadster when it’s in the garage. Admittedly the article could have been clearer about that.

    Lensman | 2008-07-13 - 04:45:40 PM (CDT)

29. I am a hero as I have ordered the "Wise" from Hybridtechnologies.

    Ray | 2008-07-13 - 01:44:18 AM (CDT)

30. Fact: by the late 1990 the Toyota RAV-4 EV, Ford Ranger pickup EV, and the GM EV-1 proved that battery electric vehicles could be built in the SUV, Pickup, and sports car categories.

    Fact: Toyota RAV-4 EV and Ford Ranger EV vehicles remain on the road today in spite of the efforts of the Bush administration and automakers to litigate CARB into submission and block California’s efforts to bring zero emissions vehicles to the forefront of commuter vehicle designs.

    Fact: They did not use lithium battery technology

    Opinion: It is more than technolgically feasible to build battery electric vehicles that can get 40-60 miles round trip per charge without the need to use expensive battery technology such as lithium. DIY hobbyists have been converting internal combustion vehicles into fully battery electrics since the early ’80s. So GM’s CEO Lutz questioning whether battery technology can be developed to provide a 40 mile electric range for the Volt is simply ridiculous. As for the life of batteries, longevity can be affected by use, level of discharge, level of recharge, etc. Batteries that are managed properly last significantly longer than those depleted below recommended levels. The majority of American families have several vehicles. Keeping one gas or hybrid vehicle for long distance trips while using battery electric vehicles for our daily commute to work and shopping around town will this country’s gasoline by more than 60 percent. With the political will and non-expiring tax credits most American families could make the switch within 10 years. In other words, with the political will and responsible capitalism sending our men and women oversees to give their lives so we can have a full gas tank will no longer be a necessary unstated political agenda.

    garry | 2008-07-14 - 11:38:58 PM (CDT)

31. I’m not sure if someone has mentioned this already but I don’t feel like sifting through all the BS that some people have written.

    Engines used in electrically powered vehicles are more costly and require more energy to produce than internal combustion engines.

    Obviously, the batteries have to be charged and must be plugged in to the electrical grid.

    Since most electricity in the U.S. is produced by either burning coal or natural gas, an electric car’s net emissions numbers must include these tangential requirements.

    Ben | 2008-07-14 - 12:46:47 AM (CDT)

32. Ben,

    If you truly believe what you said about the production cost of ICE vs. electric, you’re drunk. The most powerful electric motors available today for electric cars cost $3000 (or less!) brand new. A brand new ICE for a Honda Civic costs over $5000 - and that’s one of the cheapest. A brand new BMW 6 cylinder can cost $15,000!

    Electric motors are so much simpler than ICEs that comparing their production complexity and costs to EV motors is like comparing a drinking fountain to an espresso machine.

    Please do some research on coal/NG plant emissions - and the impact the electric car market will have on those emissions - before spouting off.

    Jesse | 2008-07-16 - 12:22:51 AM (CDT)

33. Yeah Jesse is right, the "engine" that electric cars use is simply an electrical motor. Just some metal with wire wounded on it. BTW, that’s also doubles as a generator which is why if you turn a motor (which has magnets in it) it will produce electricity... Like when you use the brakes... Much simpler and cheaper to manufacture than complex gas engines, and also last much longer. I bet the car body (if it was of the same materials as used in today’s cars) would become seriously corroded before there are any major "engine" problems in an electric car.

    TekWiz | 2008-07-17 - 04:48:09 PM (CDT)

34. An electric motor would have a life of 5,000,000 miles vs and ICE of at most 400,000 miles. Yes I said 5 million miles. I never bought NEW electric motors because there were so many good reliable used motor available. Batteries WILL get smaller. Batteries will be made to hold a charge longer. Batteries will be made to charge quicker. Compare todays car with my old model "A" - there is a world of difference or my first 4004 computer with todays models. .

    Donald Baer | 2008-07-18 - 03:47:06 AM (CDT)

35. The range limitations of EVs are only a current setback. as some note, batteries are only going to get better, so the base ranges will improve.

    Charging stations and methods of fast charging to a 80%+ state of charge are about as far away as having commercially viable (available at the roadside dealership) electric cars that people then want to travel from NYC to Chicago in. Power companies will smell the money and "service stations" with trained electrical workers will crop up on major travel routes.

    Far down the road, roadways can be built to deliver power to the car while it drives. This is a massive project, but once the EV fleet comprises near half or more of the vehicles on the road (probably any time after 20 years from now as gas becomes impracticaly expensive as motive fuel) the practicality of powering/charging vehicles on the roadway will be achievable, and technically feasible.

    Running cars on electric power instead of whatever fuel of the moment is a matter of energy logic, it is going to happen, sooner or later. Electricity is independant of whatever source it is derived from. ICE engines, various "fuel cell" technologies etc all rely on one or two types of energy sources. Far better long term reliability just running on energy (electricity) and letting the provider worry about the source.

    Jim Mapes | 2008-07-22 - 12:46:14 PM (CDT)

36. @Jim Mapes 20 years? I don’t think an infrastructure change that big will be happening within 20 years. Hell, we’d be lucky if we got something that big out of the government in 40 years.

    WTM | 2008-07-22 - 12:59:33 PM (CDT)

37. WTF does Kerry Bradshaw get Info? Big is better... You know what they say about guys with big trucks. I think The Tesla Electric Car Company is the next Henry Ford.
    Besides, even if it didn’t, many other companies will provide compatible batteries. Does anybody have a real price of the replacement batteries on the roadster?

    John C | 2008-07-23 - 04:13:21 AM (CDT)

38. For those of you debating lithium battery life, battery powered drills could be used as an example. From personal experience I would say the batteries will remain strong for 3 years and fail at 5 years.

    jordan | 2008-07-26 - 03:54:31 AM (CDT)

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